Comments on: Question of the Week: Fake vs. Real—Does It Matter? http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/ The online magazine of the Getty Wed, 22 May 2013 18:32:39 +0000 hourly 1 By: BWR http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7778 BWR Thu, 04 Nov 2010 22:22:59 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7778 The whole debate on the hierarchy of what is worthy is something that we often discussed in my undergrad courses. Those of us who are trained as art historians can sometimes be snobs about the quality of an object depending on whether or not we believe it to be authentic as well as a good example of its particular genre or the oeuvre of the artist. Depending on the time period of object/artworks, we're still coming from an 18th century viewpoint on what is good and worthy. I do agree that it's important to properly label objects so that the public can be educated, but it's just as important for the casual visitor to be able to walk around the galleries and enjoy the works because they find them beautiful. Remember that J. Paul Getty originally did not have educational labels or any sort of gallery interpretation when the original museum opened in the 1950's. He wanted the visitors to experience and interpret the artworks for themselves. The casual visitor doesn't care what some New York or London scholar/critic has to say. Yes, we've put a lot of effort into our educations and research, but at the end of the day if someone likes a painting or a cabinet, despite it's being a copy, that visitor got something out of the experience. The whole debate on the hierarchy of what is worthy is something that we often discussed in my undergrad courses. Those of us who are trained as art historians can sometimes be snobs about the quality of an object depending on whether or not we believe it to be authentic as well as a good example of its particular genre or the oeuvre of the artist. Depending on the time period of object/artworks, we’re still coming from an 18th century viewpoint on what is good and worthy. I do agree that it’s important to properly label objects so that the public can be educated, but it’s just as important for the casual visitor to be able to walk around the galleries and enjoy the works because they find them beautiful. Remember that J. Paul Getty originally did not have educational labels or any sort of gallery interpretation when the original museum opened in the 1950′s. He wanted the visitors to experience and interpret the artworks for themselves. The casual visitor doesn’t care what some New York or London scholar/critic has to say. Yes, we’ve put a lot of effort into our educations and research, but at the end of the day if someone likes a painting or a cabinet, despite it’s being a copy, that visitor got something out of the experience.

]]> By: Suzanne http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7730 Suzanne Wed, 03 Nov 2010 19:09:24 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7730 As an art historian, the authenticity does matter to me. As in, is this actually Renaissance-era decoration or is it a later conception of what Renaissance decoration should be? To me it's interesting how the piece seems to fuse medieval and classical decorative elements. Which gives flavor and context to the period: it's a moment in time in which both the medieval past and the classical past are equally influencing personal taste. If it's an original piece, it can say a lot about the artist and the person who commissioned the work. If it's a copy, it might say more about how 19th century patrons/artists viewed the Renaissance because we can't be use that it's an accurate copy of an original piece or a combination of multiple elements. Also all the hand carving has meaning in an era of increasing factory production; it's proof of the wealth of the commissioner that they can hire skilled labor to carve it as a unique object just for them. I guess it depends on what the museum wants the lay public to get out of the display of objects. If the purpose is to educate people about the history and development of art, it's essential to correctly label where the object stands in the timeline of artistic development. If it is just a beautiful object, and that's all people are going to get out of it, it doesn't much matter. There is a large gap between enjoyment and understanding of an object. Yes, I think it's an amazingly beautiful object. But because it is a historical object, it has a history. It had a use for which it was commissioned. Also why do we find it beautiful? What does the aesthetic value we place on an object mean? Is an Indian temple just as beautiful? Or Chinese calligraphy? Or is it beautiful because we have been surrounded by similar decorative motifs all of our lives? See: Beaux arts buildings in NYC which use the same kinds of Classical motifs in their decoration. As an art historian, the authenticity does matter to me. As in, is this actually Renaissance-era decoration or is it a later conception of what Renaissance decoration should be? To me it’s interesting how the piece seems to fuse medieval and classical decorative elements. Which gives flavor and context to the period: it’s a moment in time in which both the medieval past and the classical past are equally influencing personal taste.

If it’s an original piece, it can say a lot about the artist and the person who commissioned the work. If it’s a copy, it might say more about how 19th century patrons/artists viewed the Renaissance because we can’t be use that it’s an accurate copy of an original piece or a combination of multiple elements. Also all the hand carving has meaning in an era of increasing factory production; it’s proof of the wealth of the commissioner that they can hire skilled labor to carve it as a unique object just for them.

I guess it depends on what the museum wants the lay public to get out of the display of objects. If the purpose is to educate people about the history and development of art, it’s essential to correctly label where the object stands in the timeline of artistic development. If it is just a beautiful object, and that’s all people are going to get out of it, it doesn’t much matter.

There is a large gap between enjoyment and understanding of an object. Yes, I think it’s an amazingly beautiful object. But because it is a historical object, it has a history. It had a use for which it was commissioned. Also why do we find it beautiful? What does the aesthetic value we place on an object mean? Is an Indian temple just as beautiful? Or Chinese calligraphy? Or is it beautiful because we have been surrounded by similar decorative motifs all of our lives? See: Beaux arts buildings in NYC which use the same kinds of Classical motifs in their decoration.

]]> By: corporate relocation service http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7724 corporate relocation service Wed, 03 Nov 2010 17:05:52 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7724 Hi, I just think it's an incredible story and what is more important is that it is not in storage anymore and its beauty is there for all to see. I really do think it is subjective, a case of we always believe what the experts say, without question. I tend to agree with Christiana, if it was displayed as a replica, I probably wouldn't stop and look! Regards Mike Hi,

I just think it’s an incredible story and what is more important is that it is not in storage anymore and its beauty is there for all to see. I really do think it is subjective, a case of we always believe what the experts say, without question. I tend to agree with Christiana, if it was displayed as a replica, I probably wouldn’t stop and look!

Regards

Mike

]]> By: Christine Spier http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7498 Christine Spier Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:41:53 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7498 Hi Valerie, The fact that everyone responds differently to works of art makes going to museums a fun and open-ended experience. Some people are struck by the formal or aesthetic qualities of an object, while others are more intrigued by its history. For the latter, a museum can function as a time machine that offers a great escape into a different era and culture. Museums are great for both. Hi Valerie,
The fact that everyone responds differently to works of art makes going to museums a fun and open-ended experience. Some people are struck by the formal or aesthetic qualities of an object, while others are more intrigued by its history. For the latter, a museum can function as a time machine that offers a great escape into a different era and culture. Museums are great for both.

]]> By: Valerie http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7465 Valerie Fri, 29 Oct 2010 03:30:43 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7465 Christiana's reaction raises an interesting point about attraction versus suggestion. Isn't it better to give your attention to things that attract you, that catch your eye as you walk through the door? You can choose to read the identification - or not. The words "Renaissance" and "copy" shouldn't affect your enjoyment of a piece. Christiana’s reaction raises an interesting point about attraction versus suggestion. Isn’t it better to give your attention to things that attract you, that catch your eye as you walk through the door? You can choose to read the identification – or not. The words “Renaissance” and “copy” shouldn’t affect your enjoyment of a piece.

]]> By: Christine Spier http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7459 Christine Spier Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:21:53 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7459 Hi Crystal, Yes, it is truly a marvelous piece of furniture. I often refer to it as a display cabinet that is ‘displaying’ itself. Discovery in field of the history of art is an on-going process. In 2001, curators in France organized a small exhibition on the work of renowned 16th-C cabinetmaker Hugues Sambin, which prompted a Getty curator to launch a thorough reexamination of the Museum’s cabinet. Thanks to that curator’s open-mindedness, ostensibly against the general consensus, we are able to appreciate this piece’s complex history today. Hi Crystal,
Yes, it is truly a marvelous piece of furniture. I often refer to it as a display cabinet that is ‘displaying’ itself. Discovery in field of the history of art is an on-going process. In 2001, curators in France organized a small exhibition on the work of renowned 16th-C cabinetmaker Hugues Sambin, which prompted a Getty curator to launch a thorough reexamination of the Museum’s cabinet. Thanks to that curator’s open-mindedness, ostensibly against the general consensus, we are able to appreciate this piece’s complex history today.

]]> By: Christine Spier http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7457 Christine Spier Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:05:22 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7457 Hello Susan and Christiana, You've made interesting points. You've both hit the 'rose tack' on the head here. The intersection between the object and viewer is what brings the museum to life. We really need to be active participants. Expertise and knowledge change over time. It's important to think and 'look' for ourselves. Hello Susan and Christiana,
You’ve made interesting points. You’ve both hit the ‘rose tack’ on the head here. The intersection between the object and viewer is what brings the museum to life. We really need to be active participants. Expertise and knowledge change over time. It’s important to think and ‘look’ for ourselves.

]]> By: Crystal http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7454 Crystal Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:44:26 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7454 I think it's just as beautiful as it was if it was a forgery. However, the fact that it's older than we thought- and the thought that J. Paul Getty put his faith in it in spite of opposition- makes it an even more interesting part of history. Lucky Cabinet! I think it’s just as beautiful as it was if it was a forgery. However, the fact that it’s older than we thought- and the thought that J. Paul Getty put his faith in it in spite of opposition- makes it an even more interesting part of history. Lucky Cabinet!

]]> By: The Science of Authenticity | Deep Copy http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7450 The Science of Authenticity | Deep Copy Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:35:49 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7450 [...] More [...] [...] More [...]

]]> By: Susan http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/question-of-the-week-fake-vs-real-does-it-matter/#comment-7447 Susan Thu, 28 Oct 2010 21:59:19 +0000 http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/?p=2265#comment-7447 It kind of blows my mind that the amazing quality of this cabinet couldn't stand on its own. Even if it was from the 19th century, so what?! It's beautiful, and the carving and imagery is so masterfully done and spectacular that you'd think curators would value it for this alone. It makes me think of how impressionable humans are - that the opinion of a few curators/experts would be accepted without thinking. Although Getty seemed to know something of value was here...but then it ended up in storage. Makes me think of the way much modern art is valued. If an expert tells us it is "important," voila, it is! (and the $$ value goes up too!) It kind of blows my mind that the amazing quality of this cabinet couldn’t stand on its own. Even if it was from the 19th century, so what?! It’s beautiful, and the carving and imagery is so masterfully done and spectacular that you’d think curators would value it for this alone.

It makes me think of how impressionable humans are – that the opinion of a few curators/experts would be accepted without thinking. Although Getty seemed to know something of value was here…but then it ended up in storage. Makes me think of the way much modern art is valued. If an expert tells us it is “important,” voila, it is! (and the $$ value goes up too!)

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